EVALUATION REPORT QUESTION

[nik]

Dear Elz,

I graduated from the Faculty of Law, University of Belgrade.

According to the evaluation report I received yesterday, U.S. Equivalence for my degree is Bachelor of Arts with a major in Serbian Legal Studies.

My total semester hours of undergraduate credit is 126,00.

I also received 15 credits for some graduate level courses done at the Faculty of Political Science,University of Belgrade which is pretty good.

How is it possible that U.S. equivalent is a Bachelor of Arts degree if I was studying law, just law and nothing but law?

I understand that Legal studies system in common law countries is different than in civil law countries (almost all European countries).

Still I know that during my four year studies I never studied any arts but law.

My Diploma is evaluated by ECE.

Thanks

[nik]

Can somebody answer my question please?

[sasastevic]

Dear Elz,

I graduated from the Faculty of Law, University of Belgrade.

According to the evaluation report I received yesterday, U.S. Equivalence for my degree is Bachelor of Arts with a major in Serbian Legal Studies.

My total semester hours of undergraduate credit is 126,00.

I also received 15 credits for some graduate level courses done at the Faculty of Political Science,University of Belgrade which is pretty good.

How is it possible that U.S. equivalent is a Bachelor of Arts degree if I was studying law, just law and nothing but law?

I understand that Legal studies system in common law countries is different than in civil law countries (almost all European countries).

Still I know that during my four year studies I never studied any arts but law.

My Diploma is evaluated by ECE.

Thanks

Ok, here's a response, although obviously I am no adviser and cannot give you an authoritative opinion.

Now from what I understand, the bottom line is they didn't see your degree as a law degree issued by a law school, but as a regular college degree with a major in legal studies. As you know, in the US you are supposed to attend law school only after you get your college degree.

Now, the fact that your degree is identified as a Bachelor of Arts shouldn't confuse you: B.A. doesn't mean you studied art, it's just a standard name for a college degree, like "diplomirani" in Serbia, so you can have a B.A. in economics, English, political science, or anything else. The same goes for the Master of Arts and the Doctor of Philosophy (PhD). PhD doesn't mean that you are really a doctor of philosophy, because you can have a PhD in mathematics, biology, French, or whatever; it's a standard name for a doctorate.

Hope this helps.

[nik]

Thanks for the reply.

All that you wrote sounds logical but as I know the Law faculty in Belgrade is a law school and not come college.

If they wrote I have major in Serbian legal studies that means that before major, I must studied something else.

Like fine arts or geography I guess.

But I didnt.

At the Law faculty in Belgrade we didnt really had any majors.

We had streams, like Judicial law and International law and difference between those two are in exactly seven courses during four year study.

With a law degree issued by the Law faculty in Serbia you dont have to attend any other school to become a lawyer and start practicing law.

If they are trying to give the EQUIVALENCE for my Law degree nothing except J.D. or LLB is correct.

Because equivalence means putting in a relationship my degree with degree here in the U.S.

It means to evaluate qualities that are comparable.

It doesnt mean that I can practice law in U.S. with Serbian law degree (which is possible by the way with foreign law credentials in 13 U.S.states).

It is just acknowledgement act, act of recognition that I studied law in my country in the comparable way students study law in the States.

That means that I was admitted to the law school by rules and that I graduated from the law school after passing 32 exams.

Which, except English as a second language, Sociology, Political Economics and Economic Policy all were very connected to law.

I dare to say pure law.

Ok, here's a response, although obviously I am no adviser and cannot give you an authoritative opinion.

Now from what I understand, the bottom line is they didn't see your degree as a law degree issued by a law school, but as a regular college degree with a major in legal studies. As you know, in the US you are supposed to attend law school only after you get your college degree.

Now, the fact that your degree is identified as a Bachelor of Arts shouldn't confuse you: B.A. doesn't mean you studied art, it's just a standard name for a college degree, like "diplomirani" in Serbia, so you can have a B.A. in economics, English, political science, or anything else. The same goes for the Master of Arts and the Doctor of Philosophy (PhD). PhD doesn't mean that you are really a doctor of philosophy, because you can have a PhD in mathematics, biology, French, or whatever; it's a standard name for a doctorate.

Hope this helps.

[sasastevic]

Ok, here's a response, although obviously I am no adviser and cannot give you an authoritative opinion.

Now from what I understand, the bottom line is they didn't see your degree as a law degree issued by a law school, but as a regular college degree with a major in legal studies. As you know, in the US you are supposed to attend law school only after you get your college degree.

Now, the fact that your degree is identified as a Bachelor of Arts shouldn't confuse you: B.A. doesn't mean you studied art, it's just a standard name for a college degree, like "diplomirani" in Serbia, so you can have a B.A. in economics, English, political science, or anything else. The same goes for the Master of Arts and the Doctor of Philosophy (PhD). PhD doesn't mean that you are really a doctor of philosophy, because you can have a PhD in mathematics, biology, French, or whatever; it's a standard name for a doctorate.

Hope this helps.

I understand your frustration but unfortunately I just don't know enough about the subject to be able to comment. Maybe you can get a second opinion. I guess there is probably some institution that specializes in this issue; or maybe you can contact law schools?

Sorry I wasn't more help.

Good luck!

[nik]

Thanks for understanding but it is not necessary.

I don need it because among first things you learn in the law school is about justice.

Justice and knowledge.

Knowledge is something that we all need.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing apparently.

So hopefully, I will get the answer soon, from Elz and ECE because I already I called them.

Best

[elz]

Dear Nik,

Sasha is quite right in his response. The problem is that US Law School is a graduate program. Your law degree from the University of Belgrade is not equivalent to a J.D. It is a first university diploma and therefore is considered a Bachelors Degree. You were not admitted to law school with a bachelors degree as is the requirement for law school admission in the US.

The other part of the problem is that the LLB, does not exist in the United States. Therefore, it would be impossible for them to provide that title for your credentials. Remember the credentials evaluation is a "fit" of your educational experience within the framework of a US education - the JD would indicate that you held one bachelors degree and the professional degree JD. This is not the case. Also keep in mind that the JD is rather unique to the United States. In other words, you did not study law in the same way as a law student in the United States. In fact, I would guess that you studied very little case law, which is one of the primary foundations for the US legal system. You might contact the evaluators for further information.

What exactly do you want to do with the evaluation? Has this evaluation proved a setback to your goals in some way?

Elz

[nik]

Bachelor of Arts is awarded for either a course or a program in the liberal arts or the sciences, or both.

I didnt study any of them.

I know it is first university diploma but how I suppose to be admitted for example at the LLM program for foreign lawyers with BA degree?

Lots of students who got degrees at the Law Faculty in Belgrade were admitted to LLM and LLD programs.

Equivalent doesnt mean the same but comparable.

And as the course of study I didnt study it as BA with major in Serbian Legal Studies.

When somebody earns a BA degree with major in Legal Studies here in the U.S. that means he/she took various college and courses plus some very basic pre-law courses.

And just a few and basic.

Such as : Introduction to Criminal Law. Introduction to Juvenile Justice,Gender, Crime and Justice, Race, Crime and Justice. Juvenile Law,, Legal Philosophy.Courts and Sentencing, Law and Psychology, Correctional Intervention, Advanced Seminar in Criminal Justice, Advanced Seminar in Law, Advanced Seminar in Juvenile Justice.

And before that recommended supporting sequences could be: Economics, History, Law, Policy, and Society, Philosophy or Political Science.

I dont know really how this correlates to the course of study at the the Faculty of Law in Belgrade.

OBVIOUSLY THE ONLY EVALUATION CRITERIA IS DURATION OF STUDY AND NOT QUALITY OF IT.

As of my goals I am not sure if this evaluation will help to achieve it.

Hope it will.

At least I have 141 credit hours to bargain

I wanted to be admitted to MPA and possibly to LLM program for froeign lawyers, for which I need the first law degree whatever that meant.

Thanks Elz.

Really appreciate your fast reply.

[elz]

Hey this is not going to impact your admission to an LLM.

Elz

[nik]

CHEERS THEN

Thank you so much.

This just boosted my hopes

Anyway I didnt wanted to start practicing law out of the blue.

I just spoke to the Rachael from the ECE.

She wasnt sure about that.

Next week I am making the appointment with my dear admissions officer.

Salute

Hey this is not going to impact your admission to an LLM.

Elz

[sasastevic]

CHEERS THEN

Thank you so much.

This just boosted my hopes

Anyway I didnt wanted to start practicing law out of the blue.

I just spoke to the Rachael from the ECE.

She wasnt sure about that.

Next week I am making the appointment with my dear admissions officer.

Salute

Just one more note. You don't have to use an educational credentials service. I know I didn't, and I'm pretty sure most of other people who came to the US didn't either. Most of the schools can evaluate a degree on their own. You can get a certified translation of your degree and transcripts, and then let the program to which you're applying decide whether your credentials are right or not. That's what I did, and it went OK.

[nik]

I did it like that exactly, but later on,during the admission process they requested professional evaluation

They werent sure what kind of degree I have.

Maybe they will be even more confused now

Evaluator who contacted me was kind of sorry, but according to her, they couldnt find the better match for my degree in the U.S. system.

She was aware that I have a law degree but either way couldnt evaluated it as the J.D. because thats apparently exclusive for the U.S.

Anyway I hope it will work for me like this.

At least I have more than enough credits.

Best,

N

Just one more note. You don't have to use an educational credentials service. I know I didn't, and I'm pretty sure most of other people who came to the US didn't either. Most of the schools can evaluate a degree on their own. You can get a certified translation of your degree and transcripts, and then let the program to which you're applying decide whether your credentials are right or not. That's what I did, and it went OK.

[sasastevic]

I did it like that exactly, but later on,during the admission process they requested professional evaluation

They werent sure what kind of degree I have.

Maybe they will be even more confused now

Evaluator who contacted me was kind of sorry, but according to her, they couldnt find the better match for my degree in the U.S. system.

She was aware that I have a law degree but either way couldnt evaluated it as the J.D. because thats apparently exclusive for the U.S.

Anyway I hope it will work for me like this.

At least I have more than enough credits.

Best,

N

Damn!

I guess it's just tough luck. It seems that they are really interested in the formal side of credentials in your field. Most of us just don't need to worry about this.

....

[nik]

Yeah...

I guess it is.

I spent all my luck winning the green card lottery

For the rest I have to work harder.

I don't mind.

Cant have it all.

Damn!

I guess it's just tough luck. It seems that they are really interested in the formal side of credentials in your field. Most of us just don't need to worry about this.

....

[elz]

Nik,

Can you scan everything and send it to me? I would like to see exactly what this all says. I still do not think that you will have any trouble, but I would also like to look at your evaluations and your English and Serbian versions of your credentials.

Elz

[nik]

I can scan the ECE report and send it to you as of today.

As of my course by course certificate from the Law Faculty I can't.

I had it scanned but unfortunately my laptop died last week.

So I bought a new one.

God bless America

I didn't have the backup but I am trying to get it fiixed.

It's out for repair.

Besides that my sister (who is in Belgrade), will get me the new certificate next week if necessary, so I can have it in almost no time.

Oh, I also have the copy of my Diploma with me.

For start I am ready to send the ECE report and Diploma

Thank you so much.

PS

Just tell me please to what address I can send scanned docs?

Nik,

Can you scan everything and send it to me? I would like to see exactly what this all says. I still do not think that you will have any trouble, but I would also like to look at your evaluations and your English and Serbian versions of your credentials.

Elz

[nik]

I have it Elz!!!

It's all here.

I thought that I had it only scanned, but after a little digging through my documentation I found it!

Good old hard copies!

I can sent it to you all as of today.

[nik]

Dear Elz,

I have all scans ready and I am just waiting for your signal